Talk of JESUS .com

Tag: Church

Divinity, Doctrine and Denomination
As I pointed out in our last Saturday Post WE, the church, seem to have some differences dividing our approach to divinity.

Denominations / Why can’t we all just get along?

~800 MILLION Protestant Christians [37% of the world population] can be divided into < 40,000 denominations

What does it mean to be called a “Christian?”

Who are all of those ‘denominations‘ that call themselves, ‘Church?’

And what do doctrine and divinity have to do with it?

Divinity

God IS God! (and WE are NOT)!

Anyone who denies THIS has a humility problem!

Look it up:

ĕlōhîm – אֱלֹהִים

θειότης – theiotēs From θεῖος from Godhead

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 LSB

Doctrine

This entire Saturday Post series (including Church) addresses doctrine. READ MORE: What is Doctrine?

But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine.
Titus 2:1 Legacy Standard Bible

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
Galatians 6:7 LSB

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.. Romans 1:18

Denomination

Martin Luther originally gets much of the blame for his PROTEST against false teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

Luther’s theology stood on the truths of Scripture and faith.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS WILL LIVE BY FAITH.” – Romans 1:16-17 LSB

Denominations / Why can’t we all just get along?

Scripture tells us how false teachers leaven the Church and the faithful must discern the dangers of false preaching.

Church DE-NOMINATIONS seem to be doubling-down lately into divisions over SOCIAL issues.

AND this phenomenon of churches redefining themselves is not limited to any particular denomination.

What does it mean to be a church?

RE-fitting YOUR church vision to accommodate changing cultural mores doesn’t really seem to have anything to do with divinity or sound doctrine rooted in Scripture and proclaiming the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

As you have seen in my previous Saturday Posts, although gaining downhill momentum toward the pit of destruction, this trend is nothing new.

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. .. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words..
These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been kept. For speaking out arrogant words of vanity, they entice by sensual lusts of the flesh, those who barely escape from the ones who conducted themselves in error..
Second Letter of the Apostle Peter to the Church 2:1,3,17-18 LSB

In the beginnings of the first century Church the Apostle Peter mentions an earlier fall of Israel as an example of the ever-present danger of false teaching.

Can we be a ‘church‘ without doctrine?

Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach..
“My teaching is not Mine, but from Him who sent Me. “If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is of God..
Gospel of John 7:14b,16-17a LSB

TEACHING IS DOCTRINE!

Is the Doctrine YOU hear in YOUR church from God?

If YOU think the preacher of the church YOU ‘attend‘ doesn’t have some ‘NON-NEGOTIABLES’ of Doctrine, it’s time for you to listen closer (and think for yourself).
- What DOESN’T he/she say — EVER?
- What Truth will the man or woman with the mike REFUSE to PREACH from the pulpit or have you hear in the good-feeling lyrics of the amplified sounds of worship?
- Which Bible verses have to be bent just a little to connect to OUR audience?
  - DARE WE EVER preach REPENTANCE before grace?
  - Let’s bring Christ down from heaven just a bit, so he feels closer to OUR audience just for an hour (and only on Sunday).
  - As in my previous post on Everythingology for an all-inclusive church, perhaps I’ve overstated this (just a bit) by hyperbole once more.- RH
What makes a CHURCH Christian?
Have BIBLE verses evaporated from the wall of worship behind the stage of OUR worship service?
Does OUR pastor hesitate to mention Christ Jesus?
Is a pressing social issue important to the growth of our church?
Can OUR church be BOTH christian AND other?
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Although I am a lay theologian; that is, I study God and I study Scripture and I study Jesus Christ, I must once again point you toward the teaching of a most respected Christian theologian. 
Although I will add my comments here, seek your own answers about the church you belong to locally. 
(And once your read this and think through the doctrine YOU hear, why not ADD your COMMENTS to this post?)- RH
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Divinity, Doctrine and the Christian Life

“The great divorce of doctrine and life will destroy the Christian life.

Lloyd-Jones on the Christian Life: Doctrine and Life as Fuel and Fire
Foreword by Sinclair B. Ferguson By Jason C. Meyer, Series edited by Stephen J. Nichols, Justin Taylor, Foreword by Sinclair B. Ferguson

Doctrine and life are fuel and fire, not oil and water.
D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

THINK DOCTRINE, EMBRACE TRUTH, ACT ACCORDINGLY
1. doctrine comes to mind
2. truth captures the heart
3. which then moves the will to act
The Bible starts with God the Father always, everywhere and we must do the same — because that is the order of the blessed Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

“I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
“I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.
“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
“Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.
Gospel of John 17 – from the High Priestly prayer of Jesus Christ to the Father

..theology must first concede that the finite cannot fully know the infinite. Therefore, theology is sometimes an exercise in negation.
Lloyd-Jones pictures theology as the act of building a fence around the incomprehensible mystery of God.
Jason Meyer
- Does the world HATE you because of any witness of Jesus Christ you claim by faith?
- WE are in the world, so do we recognize the evil one?
Have you even heard your pastor caution his/her church about the evil one?
- Jesus did.
- Do others worshiping the Lord alongside you recognize that Christ has set YOU, me and members of His Body the Church apart for salvation?
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us take hold of our confession. – Hebrews 4:14 LSB

EMBRACE this TRUTH:

Sinful man CANNOT intercede with the HOLY GOD (who WE are NOT) without accepting our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Perfect Sacrifice for our sins – the sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Our partial knowledge of God is real knowledge, but it falls far short of comprehensive knowledge.. God alone is
“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME.”
Jason Meyer, quoting the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John 4:8b
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NEXT, God-willing, we will continue with Jason Meyer's overview of the doctor of doctrine Martyn Lloyd-Jones and his prescription for this brief moment of our our Christian lives.
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September 17, 2022
Denominations / Why can’t we all just get along?
It’s a great question isn’t it? And from this street-level philosopher we might extrapolate questions like: “Why can’t all the church just get along?” or “Why can’t churches of ALL denominations just get along?” or “Shouldn’t OUR church teach tolerance of all poor street philosophers and inclusively preach THEIR philosophies from every religion?”

THEIR Two-faced ‘Tolerance‘

“Why can’t all the church just get along?”

Because we are ALL sinners. WE accuse the brethren of OTHER denominations while lacking discernment of our own fledgling flock of philosophers.

And this is NO different for the philosophers who deceivingly call THEMSELVES a ‘church.’

Returning to close examination of the PLANK in OUR own ‘evangelical christian’ eye, let’s review the theological discernment shared in our previous two Saturday Posts:

Christology and Theology may be at odds with prevailing social philosophy which USES a loose interpretation of the Bible to fill the house with non-committal christians.

The shift from ‘accepting the existence of different views’ to ‘acceptance of different views’ .. is subtle in form, but massive in substance. To accept that a different or opposing position exists is one thing; to accept the position itself means that one is no longer opposing it.
D.A. Carson, The Intolerance of Tolerance

Something’s wrong with our church!

(So why not RECALL it & fix it?) QUESTION what OUR church teaches AND build it back to be all-inclusive and tolerant.

In deconstruction everything is a SOCIAL construction, including the church.
Darrell Harrison – Just Thinking podcast

As a watchman on the wall Harrison points to the strategy of deconstructionist everythingologist preachers of the false gospel:

Once WE accept the philosophy that the CHURCH is a SOCIALLY constructed system, NOT a divinely ordained institution that originated in the mind of God..
- THEN the church falls into disbelief.
- CONSEQUENTLY these fledgling lambs of the faith will be led to the slaughter.
Deconstructionists
- ASSUME a HUMAN faith which WE need to fix.
- YET try to follow the illogic of philosophers who preach that:
  - ALL of these DENOMINATIONS ‘can just get along.‘
Denominations / Divide and Conquer

Why the attack on Christians?
- Christians claim the LARGEST RELIGION in the world! [< 2 BILLION souls]
  - Worldwide about three out of every ten people are Christians.
    In the U.S. about three out of four people claim Christianity as their faith (mostly Protestant) &
    In Mexico and Brazil about 9 out of 10 claim Christianity (mostly Roman Catholic)
  - Roman Catholics are the largest denomination with about one billion communicants worldwide.
  - 12% of the world population claim Orthodox Christian denominations with about 40% of the 260 million living in officially atheistic Russia.
  - ~800 MILLION Protestant Christians [37% of the world population] can be divided into < 40,000 denominations
    Source: for more info
Major Monotheistic Religions

Why can’t believers in the One God just get along?
- Islam claims almost 2 billion worshipers of Mohammed
  - Sunni Islam is the largest denomination with about <85% or about 1.6 billion followers
  - Shi’ism or Shia Islam is the second-largest Muslim denomination and divided into additional sub-denominations.
  - SEE THEIR intolerance toward OTHER religions below.
- Judaism, the original Abrahamic faith prior to Jesus Christ (1st c. A.D.) and Muhammed (7th c. A.D.), retains just a remnant of the world’s population with >15 MILLION worshipers, further divided into several religious schools of thought, culture and worship.
Church Divided

Catholic ‘kata-holos’ – universal
- IF Catholic = Universal, how then can ‘christians‘ call BOTH the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox a ‘Christian Church?’
  - Did the fall of Rome or any empire of the world separate Christians from Christ?
- Yet IF Universal = Catholic + EVERYBODY ELSE; the PHILOSOPHER then becomes the Pope with no clothes, as well as a stone ‘thinker’ with failed logic.
  - The religion of the Universal ‘Church’ is NO religion except ALL religions.
- WHY can’t YOU Christians and non-Christians all just get along?
  - The Agnostic acknowledges that GOD IS; but like so many other truths, THEY cannot prove it.
- On the other face of the religion of philosophy, an A-theist by definition professes a religion AGAINST the god of their philosophy.
  - ANY reasonably constructed religion accepted except the intolerance of Christians!
WE will RECONSTRUCT from OUR common ground.

Let’s invite the Pope to confess OUR sins against indigenous Americans of the past. He could wear a chief’s bonnet in place of his Roman MITRE. (Just instruct his holiness NOT to mention Jesus Christ.) He could help save OUR environment.

AND cultural Jews – they’re like us, so we can study their original faith. (Just don’t mention that Jesus called some of them ‘whitewashed tombs‘ or Christian claims that JESUS and the Father are ONE, or many other intolerant things JESUS said.)

Of course we have common ground with our Muslim brothers. (Maybe we can get them to give women some rights if we accept some of their very good examples of regular faith.) WE even know some at work (and they are all hard workers) who have even accepted Christians into THEIR Islamic faith and married into THEIR Muslim family.

Religion is a dirty word in the 21st century public square and an evangelical Christian the most offensive icon of intolerance to be mocked in social media.
Roger@TalkofJESUS.com

Other Faiths & Many Truths (not to mention ‘gods‘)

Let’s talk about culture. (WE can create it better.)
- The CURRENT WORLD POPULATION includes nearly 8 BILLION human souls.
- There are 18.6 million Asian Americans living in the US, making up 6% of the US population
  - Nearly 400 million Christians live in Asia (5 regions), while just 230 million Christians live in N. America.
- China has a population of 1.4 BILLION souls and although officially the PEOPLE are ATHEISTS, more Christians evangelize their faith in China than in much of the U.S.
  - Unofficially, Chinese folk religions comprise ~22% of the population, Buddhists ~14%, Christians about 5% (~74 MILLION disciples of Christ) PLUS 52% of the Chinese population are “unaffiliated” with ANY religion [probably safest even for many Christians]
    (Could the intolerance of evangelical Christians in America become the official ‘freedom FROM religion’ in the U.S.?)
  - Open Doors USA estimates the number of Christians in China to be 96,700,000
    READ more from this source about Christian Persecution
- #India, a mostly English-speaking country [in addition to Hindi] increasingly embraces Hinduism
  - with 1.25 BILLION believers worldwide.
  - A Pew research study comparing religions shows a growing intolerance of ‘minority monotheistic religions’ such as Islam & Christianity.
  - The persecution of Christians in India is intensifying as Hindu extremists aim to cleanse the country of their presence and influence. Open Doors ranks the level of persecution as comparable to that of Iran and India’s Islamist neighbors of Pakistan & Afghanistan.
Intolerant Karma

Not only do a majority of Hindus in India (77%) believe in karma, but an identical percentage of Muslims do, too.
A third of Christians in India (32%) – together with 81% of Hindus – say they believe in the purifying power of the Ganges River, a central belief in Hinduism.
Source: PEW RESEARCH CENTER

YET note intolerance of many surveyed in 2019-2020 in India:
- ..members of India’s major religious communities often don’t feel they have much in common with one another.
- Many Indians, across a range of religious groups, say it is very important to stop people in their community from marrying into other religious groups.
  - Roughly two-thirds of Hindus in India want to prevent interreligious marriages of Hindu women (67%) or Hindu men (65%).
  - Even larger shares of Muslims feel similarly: 80% say it is very important to stop Muslim women from marrying outside their religion, and 76% say it is very important to stop Muslim men from doing so.
Who is my neighbor?

Denominations of Neighborhoods

It’s NOT just the Church which divides itself, but socially constructed systems of cities, communities, clubs, political parties, schools, work.. and yes, shunned minorities (like Christians) NOT tolerated by the majority.

To further quote the PEW study:

Indians, then, simultaneously express enthusiasm for religious tolerance and a consistent preference for keeping their religious communities in segregated spheres – they live together separately. These two sentiments may seem paradoxical, but for many Indians they are not.

The study goes on to mention the mythical ‘melting pot’ approach of ‘other’ countries. NO forced integration there, just two-faced tolerance of paradoxical convenience.

WHY can’t WE all just get along?

Integration of culture (or religion) risks ruining the unique values of individuals, as well as trespassing upon any inviolable Truth part and parcel of those individuals who cling to our worship of the Lord our God and Jesus Christ.

IF our evangelical Christian denomination is NOT different from the religions of the world, the philosophers of humanism, the teachings of the false prophets or the inclusiveness of all the idols which are NOT God, THEN WHY would any soul from another culture come to the community of faith in CHRIST JESUS or fellowship of love and worship of God by grace?

IF our GOSPEL of eternal life in the Lord Jesus Christ promised in Scripture is ONLY available to those who will repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, WHY would a denomination or church tolerate ANY teaching which might lead many lost sheep into the dark deceptions of death’s doctrines?

so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be slandered.

1 Timothy 6 – Instructions to Those Who Serve
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If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 
- I Timothy 6:3-6 New King James Version 
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So withdraw yourself from such as cannot tolerate OUR intolerance FOR refusing to once again crucify Christ.
September 10, 2022
Two-faced Tolerance :)(: of the Church Against Christ
“But there are some of you who do not believe.”
“Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
Gospel of John 6:64a, 70b LSB [in context]

Jesus chose Judas as a Disciple of his master’s teaching [doctrine], yet Judas betrayed his lord Jesus with a greeting of love.

How can you call yourself a church?

(YOU who do not believe)?

Are YOU a two-faced Judas?

Like Judas, many christians in the 21st c. ‘church‘ also claim to follow Jesus as THEIR lord and teacher. These zealous lovers of the world want to GROW THEIR church. After all, WE the church could do good for all the world IF ONLY we would embrace all of these humans into OUR community of faith.

There’s ONE problem though for which WE must find a solution:

NOT everyone believes in ONE God.

AND most will not want to follow JESUS even if they accept SOME of Christ’s teaching.

Judas did NOT believe that God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ sent Christ into the world to save sinners, but rather that God might make HIS lord a king to rule HIS land and the world.

But what would OUR church look like IF JESUS would have built it on the shifting sand of the faith of Judas?

Many Teachers facing NOT One

In fact, the church of the world would prefer to follow multiple teachers, rather than trust and rely on the doctrine of ANY ONE Master, Lord, King or God.

OR perhaps a great teacher can lead ME to create MY own morality like THEIRS from the best religions of all humanity. (I don’t have to follow THEM, just pick and choose from the best THEY have to offer. After all, THEY seem to be building something NEW that attracts more attention than the worn out worship of christian churches INTOLERANT of NEW teaching. (No one wants to hear preaching from the Bible anymore).

Many of you ‘who do not believe.’

It’s NOT just one in twelve who claim Jesus, yet do NOT believe. And in the 21st c. church it’s more than a few among those who claim His name a ‘christian.’

In fact these are two-faced followers glorify one face for the world under the guise of religion, while masking a shadowed countenance betraying Christ’s sacrifice of glory for the redemption of our souls.

YES, many mask as christians in the flock of your church, while a select few even claim the gospel of some Jesus from the pulpit – a tolerant savior who will help YOU to bring peace to a world which will never accept the Gospel of His exclusive holiness.

Christ Jesus says to such leaders of OUR churches:

“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Gospel of John 8:44

“But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
John 8:45 LSB – the rebuke of Jesus Christ

Why not preach the Gospel?

IF you are a Christian — IF you are truly a disciple (follower) of Jesus Christ — IF you are a 21st century christian (as you claim), THEN why do you preach some other gospel in place of the words our Lord Jesus Christ said?

Is our gospel Biblical OR cultural?
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Today I will develop the premise of Harrison's first point from my last Saturday Post as we take a look at an all-inclusive church of everythingology through the eyes of another respected theologian.
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Previously, I shared a caution from Harrison's FIVE-POINT PROGRESSION of Evangelical Deconstructionism. WE will start there.

EMBRACE and posit [plant or assume] the idea [philosophy] that the CHURCH is a SOCIALLY constructed system, 
NOT a divinely ordained idea [institution] that originated in the mind of God.
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For IF Scripture, the WRITTEN Word of God in the BIBLE, is NOT divinely ordained; THEN the church, even ‘christian‘ ‘evangelicals‘ who claim some ‘jesus‘ or some of some Jesus can RE-WORD god’s word to include whatever WE would like it to say to the world.

Two-faced Tolerance

Contemporary tolerance is intrinsically intolerant.
D.A. Carson, The Intolerance of Tolerance

Church leaders must examine the theology of christians teaching the Bible with liberal exclusion of refining of Scripture in their local church.

We mustn’t dismiss or include a cultural phenomenon of evangelicalism of the past several decades without examining both traditional and evolved definitions of trends leavening the church.
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READ more of Carson's introductory quote:
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The notion of tolerance is changing, and with the new definitions the shape of tolerance itself has changed…
It is blind to it’s own shortcomings because it erroneously thinks it holds the moral high ground; it cannot be questioned because it has become part of the West’s plausibility structure.
D.A. Carson, The Intolerance of Tolerance, p.2

Carson illumines and points to a subtle (and two-faced) evolution of English definitions of what it means to be tolerant.

Tolerance as a verb
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Continuing to quote Carson:
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Oxford English Dictionary [abridged def.]:
1. To endure, sustain (pain or hardship) [‘That usage is becoming obsolete’ – DAC]
2. To allow to exist.. without authoritative interference.., to allow, permit
3. .. To allow intellectually, .. or principle, to put up with.
Tolerance as a noun
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Quoting the evolved digital definition of the Gates' cultural philosophy and approach in Microsoft Encarta, Carson notes:
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“When we turn from Encarta’s treatment of the corresponding noun “tolerance,” however, a subtle change appears:
- “1. ACCEPTANCE OF DIFFERENT VIEWS the accepting of different views of other people, e.g., in religious or political matters, and fairness toward the people who hold these different views.”
  - Encarta verb for tolerance: ACCEPT EXISTANCE OF DIFFERENT VIEWS.. of other people’s right to have different beliefs and practices.
The shift from ‘accepting the existence of different views’ to ‘acceptance of different views’ .. is subtle in form, but massive in substance. To accept that a different or opposing position exists is one thing; to accept the position itself means that one is no longer opposing it.
D.A. Carson, The Intolerance of Tolerance p.3

OUR social gathering – a jesus WE love

What about the INTOLERANT exclusive claims of the Lord Jesus Christ?

“Do you think that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division – Luke 12:51

And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, – Matthew 19:4

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. – John 5:46

“Many false prophets will arise and will deceive many. – Matthew 24:11

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me. – John 14:6

“For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves…
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Gospel of Matthew 7:14-15, 21 LSB
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WE will have to avoid these socially discriminating teachings of OUR jesus (or else WE will never attract anyone NEW to OUR church. 
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Indiscriminately Tolerant

As you can see once again, Christology and Theology may be at odds with prevailing social philosophy which USES a loose interpretation of the Bible to fill the house with non-committal christians.

Want to see IF your tolerant friends YOU invited to OUR church have ears to hear what OUR jesus has to say about peace and love and OUR world?

TRY putting one of the above sayings of JESUS from ANY good English translation ON THE BIG SCREEN ABOVE THE STAGE OF YOUR WORSHIP gathering on Sunday. See if YOUR increasing audience of worldly friends smiling YOUR way can still smile (: when the BIBLE shows THEM an INTOLERANT jesus?

See how they react to the exclusive truth of Scripture!
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We will continue with this challenge of betrayal of Christ by a Judas or two of OUR 21st century dividing denominations of CHRIST's Church in my next Saturday Post on the Church, God-willing.
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September 3, 2022